VHS Transfers & Quality [moved from the Van Halen Largo thread]

[awolfoutwest]

Originally Posted by AAR.oner

lets face it, videohelp.com isn't exactly the online hub of video professional worldwide

True, but it is a well-known hub of video amateurs (denoting that amateurs do not get paid for their work and are not necessarily professionally trained, not that amateurs do not do good work). And that is what this discussion is about. I rely far more on Doom9 these days, as they have THE avisynth discussion forum, but I have found plenty of good info on videohelp. As I said, no one source should be exclusively relied upon, but those are good resources from the amateur point of view. I have honestly never checked out the sites you listed in the VH thread, so thanks for those resources. I don't do DV or use an NLE, but I'm sure there's plenty to learn at those sites.

[lordsmurf]

It's always interesting what a Google Alerts will find.

To further the content of this conversation, I think this recent post about the definition of timebase correctors is a must-read for you:
http://www.digitalfaq.com/forum/show...=9889#post9889

Just some general comments to things I read above...

• Videohelp does have professionals, although few of them advertise it, for various reasons. But, alas, yes, it is heavily loaded down with "vid kiddies" that want to copy and download only, having no creative interests.
  
• Many JVC S-VHS machines are considered late-gen pro decks, aimed at freelance and digital-age needs, rather than 1980s style rack-mounted analog workflows. These are not "consumers VCRs" to be lumped in with a $50 Quasar from Kmart.
  
• If this is your hobby, then spend $500 on it to make a good product for yourself, and others that you share it with. DVDs with tracking errors, shimmering red/blue chroma noise, and hissy audio is sad. That can all be fixed with just a little bit of effort. It's still cheaper than a lot of other hobbies, be it cars or comic books.
  
• Early series JVC DVD recorders are not "bottom barrel" consumer items, being higher-end prosumer items available only from choice outlets like B&H, Fry's, J&R, Crutchfield, etc. These were not from Walmart or Best Buy, like so many crappy Panasonic machines. The machines use an LSI Logic chipset, and various LSI chipsets are used all the way up to high end broadcast workstations. Several pro JVC models used these chipsets, too, before LSI was acquired, and JVC ended their own DVD lines.
  
• ADVC300 filters are well known for excess filtering, often inducing posterizing (color palette compression), temporal blended (ghosts) and other artifacts. The Panasonic ES10 exhibits similar problems when it's rudimentary DNR is turned on.
  
• I've seen $20 USB capture cards from a grocery store outperform a $1,000+ pro Matrox card. Why? The codecs, chipsets and designs. There's more to video gear than brand, age or cost. Do not mistakenly think a device bought in 2010 will outperform a device from 2000, just because of age. If anything, gear from 2006-2010 is very inferior to some of the items available in 1995-2005.
  
• Most DVD recorders record at 720x480, even when it's a stupid idea. For example, Panasonic machines (ES10 is one!) in 4-hour mode, where the image is almost Lego-like because of the blocks. The best ones drop to Half D1, which is still higher res than VHS, when the compression starts to ramp up.

I do see a lot of good video gear and software (and methods) being talked about here. It's a nice little debate you have going on.
Don't see much talk about audio mixers and processor boards, though.

Take care.

[lordsmurf]

Hmmm.... must be a time limiting on editing a post....
Anyway, to add to the above:

FYI, if you want to find pros on a video site, ask about U-matic, SDI, HDV workflows, Aja cards, Matrox cards, Betacam SP or Digital Betacam (DigiBeta), or Avid workstations. The only people who can answer most of those questions tend to be pros in the field. Or just look for past threads on those topics.

Just a tip.

[AAR.oner]

cheers for the links re: TBC, i'll have to read thru that later...personally haven't experienced any noticeable artifacts/ghosting/etc with the ADVC like you mentioned, but i reckon its entirely possible


as for this site, typically discussion re: AJA/Matrox/Avid stations/etc isn't gonna happen since the vast majority of tapers today wouldn't know what yer talking about much less have the $$ to spend...its hard enough to explain why Nero isn't a good software choice for capturing/authoring DVDs, don't think they're gonna be buyin a Kona or MXO2

[sabkisscrue]

[gates69]

All I can tell you people is to run far, far away from sabkisscrue/deuce8pro. No amount or reason or common sense, will change him. He has been this way for 10 years. I would guess a lonely person with some sort of mental illness, but that's just the armchair shrink in me.
Good luck to you all!

[steecoe]

Originally Posted by gates69

All I can tell you people is to run far, far away from sabkisscrue/deuce8pro. No amount or reason or common sense, will change him. He has been this way for 10 years. I would guess a lonely person with some sort of mental illness, but that's just the armchair shrink in me.
Good luck to you all!

[jcrab66]

where do those new sources of Zeppelin shows come from?

[M_M_H]

Originally Posted by AAR.oner

nothing against him personally, i got frustrated with sabkisscrue's incessant "lordsmurf" name drops and with the constant ignoring of fact [data, specs, etc] for subjective opinion and speculation...as quite a few have pointed out, trying to discuss anythng with sabkisscrue/deuce8pro/etc is like running in circles banging yer head against a wall...

Looks like this character is at it again.

http://www.vhtrading.com/forums/view...9493&start=345

[lordsmurf]

M_M_H, deuce8 knows his tech*. We've had discussions for years now.

He also has a really good point about lazy leechers that don't do any work to actually track down the content that fans seek. While I'm not big on the concert/music scene, I run into similar problems with other videos. He's clearly as frustrated as I can be sometimes. I'm not talking about torrent leeching either -- but people that don't add anything new to the scene, just trading what others have made.

And it's also possible to be the ONLY person able to provide something new to the community -- I'm not getting into details. Let's just say it requires knowing the right people, and being able to acquire what they have.

Most of that thread appears to be people bickering. You have three groups participating, too: one group that is clueless on video, and two others that are arguing over how to do it.

My advice is this: You really don't want to piss off guys that do that much work, and bring new stuff to the table. If he leaves, you're going to miss his work -- even if you didn't like him as a person (attitude, whatever). The whole community loses when these people disappear. More often than not, it happens because of bad experiences with others.


*I've never seen his work, but his info is sound.

[M_M_H]

Originally Posted by lordsmurf

My advice is this: You really don't want to piss off guys that do that much work, and bring new stuff to the table. If he leaves, you're going to miss his work -- even if you didn't like him as a person (attitude, whatever). The whole community loses when these people disappear. More often than not, it happens because of bad experiences with others.


*I've never seen his work, but his info is sound.

Gee, I didn't realize he was the only one on the planet

that was capable of finding & transferring tapes.

Sometimes you catch more flies with honey than with vinegar.

[lordsmurf]

Flies are nasty -- I use insecticide and flyswatters.

[boxedart]

Originally Posted by lordsmurf

Most of that thread appears to be people bickering. You have three groups participating, too: one group that is clueless on video, and two others that are arguing over how to do it

You left out pros like myself - I am not "clueless on video" and I am not "arguing over how to do it". I understand this is just a hobby and also understand that, when it comes to restoration, there is more to it than just popping a dub of a dub into a camera or VTR, hitting play, and than hitting record on a stand alone DVD burner. At it's core that is just another dub...the person who does it is not a god.

I also don't "argue" on the "how to do it" front because, as I stated, if this is just your hobby than get what works best for you - as a hobby. If a person is happy with simply making a new dub from an old format onto a new format, than cool beans. This thread arose because a person appears to take their hobby way to seriously and feels their dubbing method is the best that ever will be, could be and ever was, and not only are they happy with the results they feel everyone else should be as well.

As for your comment about someone being "the ONLY person able to provide something new to the community", that is highly doubtful. There is new material coming out all the time from all sorts of sources. This goes for the trading community as well as the real entertainment industry. There is no one person who has everything, nor is there just one person who's job it is to seek out everything. On the other hand if a person is living in their own space bubble it is possible for them to truly believe that they are "huge" and what they do is "great" thusly they "deserve respect" because, in their minds, they are "the only members of this community" providing material." But in reality, and mind you that I have been involved in the trading community for decades, that one person does not exist.

[MDVidGuy]

"Deja Vu all over again"....yeah and again and again and again.

Don't dismiss what DeucePro brings to the table. He is the only person that most of us old schoolers trust to tranfer our stuff. He is the gateway to get all the old vids from those of us that were filming before the internet was in existence. I'll be Deuce is sitting on more uncirculated stuff than everyone on this site combined. That's not meant to brag or put him on a pedestal. What its meant to do is get the point across that we WANT TO CIRCULATE ALL THIS STUFF!!!!

What insentive do we have to do so when we get so much grief for uploading???

Most of this is just nit-picking to get people upset. Some of it is from sellers and hoarders who are making money or dont wanna see upgrades surface.

I personally don't wanna hoard, neither does Deuce. He is always encouraging me to upload. He had talked me in to uploading a 3 cam Ozzy from 96 that I dont think is circulated just last week but I got a bunch of bullshit when I uploaded the Tool 3 cam master that I decided against it.

Why can't everyone just say "thanks, this is great" and move on or just PM Deuce. He's the easiest fuckin guy on earth to get along with.

He just is. This is a shame.

[MDVidGuy]

....and as for Boxedart....Deuce is the only person in this community to has access to the 700-800 masters that myself and Shadow are sitting on.