Should we ban thoughtless leechers?

[Phishblowz]

can we enforce some kind of decency policy that people can agree on.??? maybe add a ratio value to a vine offer or bnp or something and credit them so that the ratio will reflect all aspects of sharing on the den rather than actual ul and dl stats...somehow these arrogant fools that have come here to take the best and fuck the rest have to be stopped for the good of the community...it's more about courtesy and decency than about an actual ratio issue...hopefully we can find an area we can all agree on to resolve the issue...I think everyone would agree that people like Dudogger shouldn't be here...the question is how to remove them without accidentally eliminating some of the good ones in the process...any suggestions guys???

I think ratio credits for vines and bnps is a great idea to help make sure that credit is given for all kinds of sharing (to further Lynnes idea that this isn't strictly torrents) so we can evaluate the overall sharing practice of the members within the community and feel better about enforcing a ratio because of all the ways offered to improve it...anyone else wanna pitch in any ideas ???

[acov]

i dont see why its so hard to just leave your torrents open after you download them

im pretty new to bootleg collecting and i certainly have very few bootlegs that meet the standars of teh site, but im getting there very slowly....

i mean i'll a torrent open for a month in order to get the ratio as close to 1:1 as I can....i don't understand why its so hard...

im on some other trackers where ratios are more strictly enforced, and people should be happy that here its more lax; therefore they should be more willing to leave their torrents open or whatever and to not take advantage of how great this site is

just my opinion

[Chachi420]

Originally Posted by acov

i dont see why its so hard to just leave your torrents open after you download them

Welcome to TTD, acov! Thanks for your pledge to share what you receive! I'm sure you will enjoy all of the good music this site has to offer

[trustthex]

i tape some, and post more out of the archive of stuff i have backed up/etc, and agree the "dine & dash" leeching has gotten a little ridiculous. some of my torrents don't appeal to mass audience, but having 1-2 seeds other than myself after 24-48 hrs isn't right. maybe a timer/ratio is the answer? i don't know how one would setup or enforce the b&p or vines thing, but think it is a good idea none the less...

i voted for a warning, because there are people who are just ignorant. there are people who are just leeches too... i dunno the world wouldnt be right without bottom feeders, but a torrent site, probably.

[saltman]

I voted give them a warning. I think if you ban them they can always come back under a different name/ ip. I do like the idea of a time delay for people under a certain ratio say 0.25 - 0.5. I think that this will undoubtedly catch the viners in that net. However, I think there should be some appeal process where the viner can ask for the delay to be lifted. But all that sounds complicated for the viner, the mod, etc. I guess I would say public ridicule is probably the best compromise.

[trustthex]

ya, a timer would be difficult to script/whatever... what i meant was for people in the case of a low popularity torrent be required to at least leave their window open for a certain amount of time, but that isnt really feasible i now realize.

dynamic ips, etc make it too easy to resurface after banning, seeing as this site probably doesnt want to end up blocking entire domains or ranges of ips... a timer where leeches would have to wait to get onto the torrent would only make the situation worse, because a large # of seeders (or people w/ most of the torrent complete) would already be established, worsening the problem.

<shakes fist> damn you intarweb of tubes and your distribution </shakes fist>

I don't think I get the first option. On balance, there should be more uploads than downloads? How's that supposed to work out?

[Phishblowz]

Originally Posted by Calmypal

I don't think I get the first option. On balance, there should be more uploads than downloads? How's that supposed to work out?

it's not about uploading and downloading torrents friend, we are talking about the amount of bandwidth you have shared on the torrents you are downloading...obviously we will have more downloaders than uploaders, or else no one would take stuff because they're too busy uploading their own stuff, but the idea we are getting at, is that once a few folks complete and the uploader leaves the torrent, it is up to those who completed the torrent to continue sharing it with the remaining leechers so that they complete the torrent as well...if all the downloaders leave once they complete, all the remaining downloaders will get stuck with no one to share the complete torrent...we are trying to compel others to do more to give back what they take...by no means is this a demand (or even a request) that everyone proactively upload their own stuff to be considered a valued member...but all of us have a download client and if you can figure out how to take a torrent then giving is a natural byproduct, but leaving it to run after completion is a personal choice...that is the issue being discussed here...hopefully this info has been helpful to you...please keep your window open to share what you take or offer a vine or bnp to give back if you would prefer...it is currently not required to do anything but take and enjoy, but common courtesy should compel you to be a decent person and share back what you take online via uploading to 1.0 or by offering bns or vines to make up the difference...currently you are allowed to take as much as you want and leave the community high and dry, but hopefully you don't need to be forced not to do that...most people should want to be better than that...it's a shame that some are not, but that's why we have this thread......to deal with that kind of person...hopefully you make better choices than that...welcome new guy

[Festafarian]

i like the idea of credit for vines and B&Ps. For personal reasons, I'd have a killer ratio!

Although Saltman's suggestion of public ridicule is way more fun

In the long run, I guess I agree with Lynne. People like that don't really hang around that long. They get a bunch of stuff, realize that nobody likes them and move on to some other hobby/site. We have so many good sharers, do we really have to get upset about the few who abuse the system?

[direwolf-pgh]

Originally Posted by Festafarian

i like the idea of credit for vines and B&Ps. For personal reasons, I'd have a killer ratio!

Although Saltman's suggestion of public ridicule is way more fun

In the long run, I guess I agree with Lynne. People like that don't really hang around that long. They get a bunch of stuff, realize that nobody likes them and move on to some other hobby/site. We have so many good sharers, do we really have to get upset about the few who abuse the system?

no need to become upset - it would subtract from the enjoyment.
if you took the mindset of forced ratios - it would be an endless battle you cant win & ya'll meet enough 'unique' individuals as it is.

[mbself]

Hi, I'm Matt and I am a recovering thoughtless leach.

I am finally at 1.00.

I am glad I wasn't banned back when I had a .5 or.6 or whatever it started out as. I honestly didn't get the whole uploading until your ratio is at least a 1.00 untlil I had been downloading for quite a while. Plus, sometimes my wife turns off the computer when I am not around to keep the kids from screwing with it.

Now that I understand, I let a torrent stay until at least 1 and usually until the torrent seems to have played out. When I am not downloading new stuff I try to find at least a couple of shows that need help that I can rejoin. This is what has brought me back up to 1.00. The sense of guilt that came with realizing that I was a thoughtless leach has gone away. Now, maybe I can come up with some new stuff to seed over the course of this summer.

[Phishblowz]

It's not so much about the ratio, but more the type of person you are...in your case, you didn't know better, but if you had you would have done better...you made no excuses for yourself and began to rectify the problem as soon as you knew how...I'm glad you got things straightened out and I hope you enjoy your time here at the den...those who are void of guilt or responsibility for their actions are bringing the whole experience down a level...having to tolerate sharing with people like that is disturbing, and the fact that the admin defends them as if there is a valid excuse for such disregard is even more alarming...people shouldn't be bullied into being good people, but we shouldn't be forced to tolerate the useless members here either...if you don't respect the site.....leave

I guess I let it bother me more than I should, and that's my fault, but I stand by the fact that sharing with disrespectful people leaves me with a bad taste in my mouth...there are other ways to share with the kind-hearted folks out there that I don't need to put up with this shit...but that's my cross to bear...and I probably should have kept it to myself...but when I keep my collection like my opinions (to myself), don't ask me why...ask people like Dudogger...the answer is blowin in the wind

[xequence]

When you have a system and set requirements then it gets the bad people aswell as the good people.

I think the staff should take it case by case. If they find someone who has downloaded maybe 20GB or more and has a horrible ratio then the staff member should PM them and tell them they have a few weeks to get their ratio up, and if they don't, then ban them from downloading. Ofcourse, take into account things like vines and B&Ps, and if the torrents they've downloaded have all been ones that have alot of seeders but no leechers then be understanding that they can't upload on those. Oh, but go harder on people who leech but don't seed on new torrents that have alot of leechers.

Or you could simply put the word "LEECHER" in big red, bold, and underlined letters beside they're name for extreme cases. And put a list of uber-leechers on the front page on marquee (scrolling).

All in all, uber-leechers are bad, but an undescriminate "ban all people with lower then _ ratio" thing is bad. And be understanding to people trying hard to get a good ratio.

[captain beyond]

I'm still seeding almost everything I've downloaded here and I bought a 400GB HD just for this purpose. I'm a newb but I'm learning fast and I'm about to try uploading something for the first time since I finally got in over at Dime, to share some stuff not available here. Plus I'm trying to resolve some other issues (router, port forwarding etc.) to see if I can up my upload speed (about 35 kbs at this point). It seems to me if you do what you're suggesting you're gonna lose some potentially good sharers. I began a couple months ago with zero shows in my collection. Sometimes it takes a while to get started. By the way my ratio was almost .80 a week ago until I felt compelled to DL four or five DVD's. Still seeding. There's too much good stuff here to resist!

[Chachi420]

Originally Posted by captain beyond

I'm still seeding almost everything I've downloaded here and I bought a 400GB HD just for this purpose. I'm a newb but I'm learning fast and I'm about to try uploading something for the first time since I finally got in over at Dime, to share some stuff not available here. Plus I'm trying to resolve some other issues (router, port forwarding etc.) to see if I can up my upload speed (about 35 kbs at this point). It seems to me if you do what you're suggesting you're gonna lose some potentially good sharers. I began a couple months ago with zero shows in my collection. Sometimes it takes a while to get started. By the way my ratio was almost .80 a week ago until I felt compelled to DL four or five DVD's. Still seeding. There's too much good stuff here to resist!

"Too much good stuff to resist" is the main problem with our situation at hand. There is simply no way to dl everything and maintain a 1.00 ratio. PM some people or post in the snail-mail forum and look for someone to do trades with.

Your 35 kbps ul seems about normal to me. That's what mine is. I find that if I dl/ul simultaneously, the ul is slower. So I prefer to dl, and then ul separately. (Actually, I do very little dl since I mostly do snail-mail trades with a tight group of trustworthy traders )