What are Site Admins allowed to do with donations?

[ragu421]

What the fuck is a ZOMB? Arent they the breed with the small genetalia?

[Phishblowz]

Originally Posted by patrick1963

Wrong. As Lynne stated in post #1 of this thread: "What exactly is the site's responsibility to its users in regards to the donations?"

yes this is true, but I believe it stemmed from the fact that the "taper-unfriendly" site had questionable donation practices which led Lynne to create this thread to air these various grievances...I still believe this whole thread was started due to the mess created by the fallout from the other site in sharing something that came from here...I don't think Lynne ever intended to opine about ttd's donating policies or even debate them...all of this is in response to a single overblown issue

correct me if I'm wrong Lynne...and BTW would you tell us what you would do if a taper asked you not to have their torrent shared here??? you always make solid decisions and I wonder (and think others would like to know) what you would do if faced with this issue...if you knew a torrent was upped here against the tapers wishes (regardless of whether the taper is right or wrong in feeling the way they do) what would you do???

[direwolf-pgh]

is this a pop quiz ? cause i didnt study my notes.

[freezer]

Originally Posted by patrick1963

Wrong. As Lynne stated in post #1 of this thread: "What exactly is the site's responsibility to its users in regards to the donations?"

So you say....... but this thread was hijacked a long time ago (page one message #6 -- beginning with the line - "God you are so full of shit" and ending with the line "go fuck yourself" -- is where it started going south.........and when the donation issue (this thread's stated topic) was brought up again later, see message #118, the zomb admin posting is not up to speed on the donation issue....which was the primary reason for this thread.


Sorry patrick, but the thread was hijacked away from the donations issue and put on the "Fuck the tapers" issue by certaim members from zomb trying to justify the "Fuck The Taper" attitude as shown by the treatment of Sebastian......


I joined in here when I saw the "Fuck the Tapers" attitude first being exhibited and I've noticed, that almost to a man, the tapers on TTD that posted in this thread don't like that "Fuck The Tapers" attitude.


This is what I've been responding to. And I agree with AAR.oner from message #26 in this thread

i think this thread, and the one it "stemmed from", show the changing nature of the collecting community -- the gimmegimmegimme attitudes, the this-show-has-to-be-recorded mindset ........... and a complete lack of respect for tapers & their wishes...absolutely pathetic

Dead on AAR.oner... absolutely dead on..... it's about time someone in the community calls bullshit when he sees bullshit.





If you like, patrick, we could ask Lynne to start a thread devoted entirely to the topic:

When should Site Admins say "Fuck The Tapers"?

But it would probably only be a rehash of this thread, unless it goes in the Taper's Forum, in which case a LOT more tapers would get hip to which torrent sites are "Taper-Unfriendly".







As far as donations -- Lynne did ask for opinions so here's mine:

I trust Lynne implicitly and always. Case closed.

Furthermore, I don't care what other sites do and in particular, I could care less if zomb solicits money for recording gear or to support some admin's crack habit.....I've looked at their site and I am not interested in using their services. Thanks anyway.

[possessed]

Originally Posted by freezer

You zombs want to continue to promote your policy of "Fuck The Tapers", you want to discuss your anti-taper policies, why don't you do it on your zomb site instead.

Anti-taper gripes don't get you new shows now do they? Biting the hand that feeds you is really fucking dumb IMO.

I have been looking into taping and even though I may try someday, the thought of no piss breaks, sneaking in gear, asshole security, people snitching, assholes bumping into you, not drinking (see no piss breaks), ungrateful bastards, bootleggers who charge money for your hard work, standing still in one spot (especially for video) etc, etc......just is a turn off.

Respect the taper. Without them, you would have to shell out ticket money and actually go to shows 6000 miles away instead of having some nice person preserve them for your enjoyment.

To all you tapers....

Originally Posted by entropy357

Let's please stop pointing fingers and making accusations against each other.

You know who doesn't like finger pointing? Those who are to blame.

[Patty Mac]

^ Very well said, Possessed.

[paddington]

what a bunch of shit.

Don't sell bootlegs if you aren't a bootlegger. Selling multiple copies of other people's bootlegs is shitty. If you do it, you are shitty. Selling ratio credits to facilitate downloading other people bootlegs is about the same thing.

Money for ratio / credit goes against the spirit of the hobby. It makes the place smell funny.

[Phishblowz]

Originally Posted by jameskg

what a bunch of shit.

Money for ratio / credit goes against the spirit of the hobby. It makes the place smell funny.

I agree 100%...unless the ratio is meaningless (as it is here) in which case I don't think it makes a difference...if your ratio is key to being able to access torrents, then selling ratio credit = selling torrents...but here at then den a ratio credit means about the same thing as a thank you...I don't think you were referring to ttd policy in your statement, but I wanted to make sure it isn't accepted as a blanket statement for all sites...I think it only applies to sites where your ratio is your means of access...I think you would agree with that but I wouldn't wanna put words in your mouth (or anything else for that matter)

^ jamessk is on the money. I hope awareness comes to a point where sites that do this cannot ignore people’s concerns simply by condemning those who disagree


An Open Response to Bodhisattva/ZOMB/THEZOMB

If you want to find why people are angry with or have a "vendetta" with Zomb as you call it, it really does not take a great deal of sophisticated probing to determine that people's rational resentment towards Zomb stems from a common root: Zomb's unethical behavior. With this shallow and condescending response, bodhisattva takes a page directly from the George W. school of fallacy by suggesting that those who disagree are guilty of trying to spread hate, as though we are drooling idiots incapable of distinguishing between the act of hate and the act holding people accountable for questionable activities, especially when they are entrusted with considerable sums of money.

Another parallel can be drawn with bodhisattva’s allusion of Tapers as “dictators” which is fairly Orwellian. Think about it:

The Zomb exacts stringent control over the public discourse within its forum to root out dissenters.

The taper produces; only to have his work disfigured and dismantled by the whim of parasites.

The Zomb controls and seeks acquisition; using regulation to ensure its role as a gatekeeper of bootleg access.

The taper does not control or seek power; but modestly requests that his creation be distributed in the manner he finds appropriate.

Who’s the dictator? People should determine for themselves, after all, isn’t it the dictator who relies on vapid labels such as “communists,” “trolls,” “terrorists,” “scum,” to instill what people should think without determining their own rational convictions?

On the subject of respect, I had asked a reasonable question about your definition of “donation” so we could have a common understanding of terms and you responded, "Thats all speculation dumb ass." That’s disrespectful. Raping the Taper's of their resources and disincentivizing them from taping in the future is (for lack of a better phrase) to take a giant shit on the smashing pumpkins trading community at large. That’s disrespectful. We still have not come to terms on the same definition of "donation" but I would surmise that Zomb's definition of "donate" is just as faulty as its definition of "slander" (remember, verbal not written) which Zomb purports that dissenters are guilty of (without citations)

Are questions relating to Zomb’s definition of “donations” disrespectful for the fact that they might shed some light and honestly onto a topic that has been charged with irrational and emotional rhetoric that merely serves to obscure everyone’s understanding?

An Important Message From bodhisattva

Posted on: 2007-05-26 20:03:46 GMT (9 hours ago)
Yesterday I made a sitewide announcement that caused some confusion. It was not to disrespect the great tapers of the scene. The message was in regards to a group of individuals who felt they could use source files of the first smashing pumpkins show back to slander the ZOMB for no rational reason beyond the person having a vendetta against one staff member here. The message was open ended and could have easily been misinterpreted. For this I apologize, especially to the good tapers of our scene.. Its not my intention to have members disrespect tapers. We hold respectful tapers in very high regard, and we by no means make attempts to disrespect ANYONE who respects us. But it is my intention to enlighten members about these sorts of actions so we as intelligent music fans can root out these bad tapers. Tapers who spread hatred and lies are scum, and I do not care if they are working hard to spread you free music. They do not deserve respect if they do not give respect!

But I will reiterate the original sentiments, as I stand by these words.

TAPERS who disrespect the ZOMB in their source text files, saying the ZOMB SUCKS will get no respect from the ZOMB. If they have requests in their source text for their show not to be here, yet disrespect our entire community than they deserve no respect and their wishes ignored.

Source text files are not pedestals to spread hatred and ignorance. They are to give information about the taping gear used, the lineage, the songs, and the venue. Nothing more. People can keep their personal opinions about websites out of them, as none of that matters, its collateral fluff and foolish.

We police torrents based on the criteria of format, whether or not something is lossy/transcoded, or commercially released. Beyond that we cannot be expected to police the unrealistic will of tapers/editors of shows. Releasers who believe they can dictate where their shows end up are delusional and we are not going to bow down to the delusions of egotistical, spiteful and disrectful individuals.

The ZOMB respects everyone deserving of respect. We love music, we love to spread music, and we try to be a very user friendly site. Again, I apologize for any confusion this caused, as my message was mainly in regard to two shows that have been recently released.

[AAR.oner]

haven't been on in days...damn this thread has taken a turn...won't even have to whore in the Lounge now

btw Lynne, if i donate to the site, think you might could boost my post count? all the typing is causing carpal tunnel

[AAR.oner]

Originally Posted by possessed

I have no problem donating to sites I trust (trust is the keyword). I've given money to several that I felt deserve it including this one. When the new servers were coming in and TTD was behind the money curve I gave some cash. Not because I felt obligated, but because I've known Lynne for like 5 years and trust her and how she operates this site. I don't want to see this place go down so I keep an eye on the operating cost here. Should I, as a paying member, demand accountability? Depends on the site. But here, I trust Lynne and what she has set out to accomplish. A free and open trading site with very little restrictions except to keep the trade pool clean. Share ratios aren't enforced like other sites, money gifts buy you nothing but a sense of helping the community and it's one of the most helpful communities around. How many other sites give their members such helpful techno help? Rarely does a site give such unselfish help to the community. Yes, there are a few bad apples, but for the most part the technobabble section here is unsurpassed. If they don't have the answer, they have the link.


Lynne, you have a great site and I respect you tons for doing what you do and still maintaining a great marriage and family. If we never meet, you will always be a friend to me.

and what about the rest of us staff? what, we're not trustworthy? we're not yer friends also?

just so everyone knows, that Possessed guy is a tosser, and the band sucks too

[AAR.oner]

Originally Posted by U2Lynne

(Oh, btw, I'll tell all you guys and anyone who will listen, my daughter graduated from college today in MIS with a 4.0! It was awesome and I'm so damn proud of her!)

nice Lynne! congrats from us

i finally graduated last weekend too...only took me 12 years to finish definitely not a 4.0, but got cum laude!

[AAR.oner]

Originally Posted by jcrab66

that dipshit attitude about "fuck what the tapers want" is enough to make a few "tapers" not torrent shows at all which is counter productive to what your trying to do at zomb so i guess what you have to look forward to is a bunch of great singlepointsonymic > mini disc tapes that you record with the money fools give you

finally a bit of logic

of course, who cares if its ECM>atracMD or a EarthWorks+sbd>744, its all the same right?

[AAR.oner]

Originally Posted by Phishblowz

correct me if I'm wrong Lynne...and BTW would you tell us what you would do if a taper asked you not to have their torrent shared here??? you always make solid decisions and I wonder (and think others would like to know) what you would do if faced with this issue...if you knew a torrent was upped here against the tapers wishes (regardless of whether the taper is right or wrong in feeling the way they do) what would you do???

since Lynne hasn't responded yet, i figured i would...our official policy is
here

I'm the taper/author/filmer and I want that show removed!
Our policy here is similar to that at a major torrent site. The rights to the audio/video belong to the performer. Once that show gets out of your hands, you don't have any control over what is done with it. If someone uploads a show that you taped/filmed/authored/remastered, you may ask the uploader to remove it ONCE (any other requests may be deleted at the discretion of the Mods), but it is up to them whether they want to ask us to remove it. However, that doesn't mean that show is permanently banned from here. Someone else may end up uploading it and not feel like asking for it to be removed.

but basically, it would depend on the situation...there are times the show might be pulled, other times it wouldn't...

a specific situation comes to mind where a DVD was seeded here that was authored using an audience audio source withuot asking permission of the taper...the taper was pissed because the band doesn't allow video [only audio], and he wanted to respect that...in defense of the DVD authorer, i think it was an "innocent mistake", but i still feel it was a mistake, and shoulda been either reconciled with the taper or pulled...

for me personally, as both staff and a taper, i think that a tapers wishes should be respected if at all possible...end of story

this whole stance i'm hearing from certain folks about tapers having to "earn their respect" is shite in my opinion...again personally speaking -- but when we walk into a show to record, we've typically got atleast $3000 worth of gear [no donations either ] & the knowledge to get a decent sounding recording...on top of that, we can't enjoy the show like everyone else cuz taping is work, not to mention the days it takes to edit a multi-cam video...if thats not enough to get just a bit of respect, then the "requirements" are skewed and suspect