Seeding Vinyls

[GRC]

The laser turntable was reviewed a couple of times in the UK publication HiFi News... I'll see if I can dig out the articles

Regards, Graham

I posted this in The Lounge a couple days ago on that iTunes thread, thought it would be more appropriate here:

Forgot about this, it's genius:
(the laser turntable)

I remember reading the booklet years ago from one of those early CDs where it said 'The Compact Disc combines laser optics with digital sound' and I thought, well what if they used laser optics on records? At an audiophile shop I visited I asked the guy about this and he laughed and said "It would be like reading the Grand Canyon!" (reading the record groove with a laser) I looked it up online and sure enough someone manufactured a laser turntable. It was 20 grand 10 years ago. Now it can be had for the bargain basement price of 10 grand. But you can play your records over and over again with no wear and tear and superior sound quality than needles.

Analog vs. Digital

Many believe that vinyl, under proper conditions, is THE most stable storage medium for music - ANALOG music! It has endured longer than any of the modern digital alternatives thus far, and this standard is raised seemingly every year with the inception of new technologies. The convenience that digital media affords us can never make up for the distortion and lost quality inherent in digitalization. Each musical format has its own unique value, so it is difficult to debate which one is superior. However, analog music is in greater danger of distortion from a needle - damage that is permanent and irrepairable to the source medium. Fortunately, ELP has the solution to eliminate ALL damage from wear and stylus contact!

No Needle, No Wear...

Record enthusiasts often dream of playing their records without damaging them. ELP has made that dream a reality and revolutionized record playback. Since 1989, ELP has encountered resistance to the Laser Turntable (LT) namely because it is believed that:

Vinyl Records will be replaced entirely by CDs
Mass production of the LT is not available (meaning cost reduction is not possible)

Based on these reasons, all other companies have not pursued the technology behind the Laser Turntable. ELP continues to manufacture and sell the Laser Turntable because we strongly believe that analog music aficionados will appreciate this unique way to revitalize and preserve their vinyl collection for years to come. Current record owners wholeheartedly refuse to believe that their vinyl is obsolete, even if their needles are slowly and inevitably making it so! There is no reason for vinyl to be obsolete; it's the most stable music medium ever, and it's analog!

If it is the most stable music medium ever, and has sound quality that can't be matched or improved upon, then why am I not surprised that major record companies and electronics companies didn't invest in research and development of a laser turntable? It fucks up the planned obsolescence business model that guarantees huge profits. New, improved, better sounding digital! Buy our new discs and new players! Yay! But not better than analog sourced brand new clean vinyl on a laser turntable.

[GRC]

Originally Posted by Tubular

But not better than analog sourced brand new clean vinyl on a laser turntable.

..and there's a school of thought that even old, well-used vinyl still knocks CD into a cocked hat.

Consider Led Zeppelin; sold millions, lots of LPs released, etc.

Back in 1969, 1970, the first pressing runs of Led Zep 1 and 2 were released, and the masters for these first pressing runs were, in all probability, cut direct from THE studio master tape; the original, not a copy; and crucially; this studio master tape hadn't been played very often, hadn't been taken in and out of storage, etc, etc. Some of the later pressing runs, especially those in non-UK territories, were likely to have been cut from copy masters.

Fast forward to a few years later, and once the initial pressing runs have gone, they need to re-cut a new pressing master, and the master tape gets used again. and again. and again. The more sales the band has, the more it had to be used, unless they cut the LPs from copy masters.

Fast forward to the late 1980s, when they use the 'original master' as the basis for the CD releases. This master tape has been doing the rounds now for 20 years or more, and given the high volume of sales that Zep have enjoyed, and the number of re-cuts that have been made, let's be honest, there is no way that master is going to be sounding as good as the day it left the studio.

Shortly after the Zep box set had been released, with all the hoo-ha about Jimmy Page overseeing the project to ensure the best sound quality, etc, etc, one of my friends picked up a first pressing of Led Zep 1 and 3; we put them on my Linn Sondek and did an A/B comparison against the CDs, and .... no competition; the vinyl knocked the CD sideways. The vinyl filled the room, the CD just slunk around in the vicinity of the speakers, and was like a pale shadow of what it should have been.

Regards, Graham

Originally Posted by GRC

..and there's a school of thought that even old, well-used vinyl still knocks CD into a cocked hat.

we put them on my Linn Sondek and did an A/B comparison against the CDs, and .... no competition; the vinyl knocked the CD sideways. The vinyl filled the room, the CD just slunk around in the vicinity of the speakers, and was like a pale shadow of what it should have been.

Regards, Graham

Absolutely! With vinyl it feels like the music is a living, breathing organism, present with you in the room. CDs seem artificial in comparison. Even if the CDs and vinyl were made at the same time, from the master, the vinyl would knock it sideways I reckon.

Thought about all that hammering of the master tape...what if companies cut the records for the first pressing with the master tape, then for proceeding pressings, they used one of those first pressed LPs, but played back on a laser turntable. It will never wear out this way, but just needs meticulous cleaning.

[popskull]

Ya know.........there is a lot to be said for the sampling frequency of analog..............ONE......continguous!

Regarding any surface noise on the LP..........I noticed a HUGE reduction of pop/clicks when I went from a technics 1200 to a Rega Planar 2 a few years ago.

Back in the 70's we were advised to get the bets Cartridge we could afford, then nail it to any old japanese turntable........when in reality, it was the other way around.

I think your weakest link will be using a stock computer soundcard........between its analog section and a/d conversion, it will be adequate at best. I would think a stand alone cdr deck would have better analog and a/d electronics

cheers- Mike

[Five]

Originally Posted by popskull

I would think a stand alone cdr deck would have better analog and a/d electronics

not the case... although it would be logical if it was!

Rega Planar 2? sounds nice!! how does it reduce clicks and pops, I wonder?

Analog rules... although some records are not as good as cds, especially when they've got really narrow grooves (eg from 30mins on each side).

[GRC]

Originally Posted by Five

Rega Planar 2? sounds nice!! how does it reduce clicks and pops, I wonder?

... by giving you more of the music.....

Regards, Graham

[GRC]

Originally Posted by popskull

Regarding any surface noise on the LP..........I noticed a HUGE reduction of pop/clicks when I went from a technics 1200 to a Rega Planar 2 a few years ago.

Back in the 70's we were advised to get the bets Cartridge we could afford, then nail it to any old japanese turntable........when in reality, it was the other way around.

... and when you move up from the Rega 2 to the 3, or to something even better, you get the same improvement over again....

Everything about the turntable affects the sound; the bearing for the platter, the metal used for the platter, the accuracy with which the platter is made. How round should it be? If it's perfectly circular to a tolerance of + or - 0.5mm, is that close enough? Or would + or - 5 microns be better? If it's more accurate, does it sound better?

You've got to start at the source; but the question is; should the source that you start with be the cartridge and stylus that sit on the record, or the platter that the record rotates on?

Regards, Graham

[GRC]

Originally Posted by Tubular

Thought about all that hammering of the master tape...what if companies cut the records for the first pressing with the master tape, then for proceeding pressings, they used one of those first pressed LPs, but played back on a laser turntable. It will never wear out this way, but just needs meticulous cleaning.

Sounds good, but I don't think there's that many NEW analog masters these days. Maybe a few specialist issues, but generally speaking....

Regards, Graham

I think there a quite a few artists that still record their albums in analog. I heard that the Red Hot Chili Peppers recorded 'Stadium Arcadium' in analog.

This is an interesting site:
http://www.stevehoffman.tv/

Apr 26, 2007: Vinyl Fans Rejoice!

Warner Bros./Reprise/Rhino Records Jumps Into The Audiophile Market with All-Time Classic Favorites mastered by Kevin Gray and Steve Hoffman at AcousTech Mastering! From the Original Analog Master Tapes! Pressed on Virgin 180-Gram Vinyl at RTI. Coming soon:

The White Stripes - Icky Thump
James Taylor - Sweet Baby James
James Taylor - Mud Slide Slim and the Blue Horizon
ZZ Top - Fandango
ZZ Top - Tres Hombres
Fleetwood Mac - Rumours
Rickie Lee Jones
Van Morrison - Moondance
Ry Cooder - Jazz
Joni Mitchell - Blue

And many more of your favorites to
come!!

The White Stripes record in analog!