Not sure if its lossy...

[ffooky]

Originally Posted by Five

there's some very similar looking SAs posted here:
http://www.thetradersden.org/forums/...ead.php?t=4332

I still can't find the thread with the Hendrix show I keep talking about. Maybe we talked about it at TOTM or something. But there's some FA and SA for a Blind Melon show that I got pulled from EZT where it had this lego skyscraper pattern pretty much identical to the SA we're seeing posted in this thread. I have the original legoless version of that melon show and the SA doesn't have that!

Dead right about the Blind Melon being the same as this.

So is the consensus that stairs in the FA/Skyscrapers in the SA=Minidisc ? Sounds feasible to me but what I'd really like is for someone to take a 100% kosher file and replicate those features with minidisc.

[Five]

well I don't think it's MD I think it's high bitrate cbr mp3. but we all agree that it is lossy as f*ck.

[ssamadhi97]

Originally Posted by Tate

Hmmm, so stairstep/skyscraper doesn't always equal lossy??

As of yet I am quite confident that it's safe to say that stairstep/skyscraper implies lossy. However the reverse (lossy implies stairstep) is not always the case.

Originally Posted by ffooky

So is the consensus that stairs in the FA/Skyscrapers in the SA=Minidisc ?

The exact kind of skyscrapers presented in this thread seems to imply MD source. However, MD sources do not always look like this.

Originally Posted by Five

well I don't think it's MD I think it's high bitrate cbr mp3.

Well I don't think it's high bitrate cbr mp3, I'm pretty sure it's MiniDisc. (I'm referring to pics posted in this thread. If you're referring to something else, sorry, I'm way too tired to read properly now -_-)

[Five]

oops I meant high bitrate vbr. I know you hate hearing that but it's my opinion. I'm gonna try to figure out how to get that lossy signature and post it up.

[ffooky]

Does anyone know how Shorten's lossy coding affects things (the second type described here <http://mi.eng.cam.ac.uk/reports/ajr/TR156/node7.html#SECTION00040000000000000000>) ?

I've never managed to get anything approaching the twin characteristics here from any MP3 encoder or AAC and I must say I've never seen them in anything with MD stated in the lineage.

Just an idea.

[ssamadhi97]

Originally Posted by Five

oops I meant high bitrate vbr. I know you hate hearing that but it's my opinion.

Same difference. I'm going to say it over and over again and again, it's generally not possible to tell vbr from cbr just by looking at the spectrum of an mp3 file.

Anyway, the pics presented here are neither vbr nor cbr mp3, they're MD.

[Five]

doesn't look like any MD signature I've ever seen. if you can up a sample that looks anything like this (or the bmelon) that is sourced from MD I would be shocked to see it. where can I get this sample? nowhere.

[Tate]

This is very interesting reading all your comments. Whenever you think you got no more to learn about detecting lossy sources, there's always something to discover. Thanks for the help. Keep on discussing....

[range_hood]

Looks like Atrac Type R.
Sample is from Hydrogen Audios Listening Test Forum.

[Five]

well, there it is I was wrong.

I just couldn't accept the fact that somebody out there is archiving to MD and then converting back to FLAC. it just seemed too far-fetched but it is true.

range_hood, is it okay if we make Minidisc atrac3 LP2/LP4 spectrals into a more generic MiniDisc SA and FA and add this pic?

[ffooky]

Where are the steps in the FA and the corresponding bands in the SA ?

[ffooky]

OK, here they are

[Tate]

OK, now I'm a bit confused Since I've never heard of Atrac Type R..... is this a legit format? Have shows been recorded often under that format? (cause I haven't come across these stairsteps/skyscrapers very often..)

Is it an acceptable "lossy" format like MD?

[Five]

Atrac Type R is one possible codec used by MD (right?). MD is "acceptable" when it is the master source, meaning that a minidisc was recorded at a live show either from mics or sbd not from radio and most certainly not after a CDR/DAT/FLAC/whatever.

e.g.

Mics > MD > EMU0404 > Audacity > FLAC = okay

Mics > DAT(m) > MD(0) > CDR(2) > EAC > FLAC = not okay!

so unless your show was actually recorded using minidisc (highly highly doubtful) it is not a good source for trading.

[Tate]

OK OK, now I get it. So the bootleg I have was most likely archived on MD... that sucks, the way I see it, that's pretty much the same as converting to MP3

Thanks for the explination.