Some serious questions...

[Five]

looks okay so far, but spectral also needs to be checked

check here
http://www.thetradersden.org/forums/...ead.php?t=4288

scroll down to the part about audacity, particularly getting the right settings for spectral analysis. you want it to display 0-22050Hz then take a shot zoomed to about 4 seconds.

[danasan]

Thanks for the help...

...now we are into technobabble

[Five]

the frequency analysis doesn't show everything... if you want, post a sample to depositfiles/similar and I can check it on my end.

[danasan]

Thanks again, I am going and being looking forward to learn a bit...

Well, in this special case here, Phil Collins, it is pretty clear judging by ears only. But, when it comes to the GNR mentioned before, the frequencies die at around 15.000 Hz, so it is as the uninvited said. Beside that, it was pretty clear hear-able that it comes from a poor source.

[danasan]

I've put a portion of the Phil C. here:

http://www.mediafire.com/?c8wtz5g61kvczvu

I have d/l the .mp3 version over there, and...

[Five]

there is a cutoff at about 21kHz that is strange... notice there is noise underneath, the "trim" is a little uneven. also, no blocks.

it could be a codec I don't know of that is uncommon... fwiw I have an official cd release with this kind of SA signature which was released in the 80s pre-lossy. I think its the kingsmen.

I'd say its okay, unless new information is put forward...

[Five]

oh yeah, scroll down this thread to mp3 256 cbr
http://www.thetradersden.org/forums/...ad.php?t=32490

that cuts off in about the same place as the phil show, but looks a lot different (worse!)

[danasan]

Thanks again, Five.

I am just figuring out how to interpret all this stuff...

The picture on the left is what I get when looking at the GNR concert mentioned before .wav file... That is why I said it is from a crappy source. But that was noticed by hearing experience before.

To make a short story long(!):

Here is my subjective view and I do not want this being an "Oh, listen how crappy that is and .mp3 is crap at all" - thread as far as I am concerned. I am not an expert when it comes to technical details here. I just want to learn.

I d/l the Phil show (mp3 @ 320) and after that I figured out that there is no sense in comparing that unknown source with my own. I made a .mp3 @ 320 copy from my 2. disc and burned that as an audio CD, because my LINN Karik / Numerik CD couple only accept red book standard CDs; they prefer burnable Audio CDR media discs over other.

I have had this show for about 20 years now and I am listening to it regularly, especially In The Air tonight. So I threw it in and listened... The Treble seems a bit hard, the drums seem to come out more impressive ( in fact they are more boom boom, because some details are missing ). The most important difference is, that the show "sticks" to the speakers, the "third dimension" is almost missing. Almost "no stage"... The lossless discs will put you right into the action. Lord, I could explain better in my mother tongue... I hope you get the point.

But, as I have to admit, if I never had heard the original discs, I would be glad with this .mp3 - sourced concert till the end of time and I wouldn't have missed a single note. Why? Most of the official recordings nowadays give a similar impression to me.

Let me add something, please:

I have had a .mp3 ( @ 320 ) based Prince - ONA Solo Piano and Voice CD ( which was given to fans only as a DL from his website lossless ) burned onto a CD as above for years. I always thought: WOW, but c'mon, how the hell will be the lossless version ? I got it two years ago, and it is as if Prince sits just 5 meters in front of you fornicating the piano... Not from this planet.

Conclusion so far: Any information lost at the very beginning of the chain can't be restored. Nothing new.

Now the science begins. To be continued...

[danasan]

Time out, so the EDIT why today's recordings are not the same as they were, speaking of quality:

We should not start a Vinyl discussion here "Oh, The DECCA FFSS, The RCA VICTORS LIVING STEREOS, The SHEFFIELD LABS, The DECCA PHASE 4, THE SONY JAPAN HALF SPEED MASTERS". These days are simply gone, regarding the quality of official recordings.

[danasan]

OK, back to topic...

I got a Cool Edit Pro Demo, the analysis there makes it much clearer to me than audacity did.

The .wav > Wave.jpg

The .mp3 > MP3.jpg

It's exactly the same 9 seconds, different data regarding frequencies.

Now convert mp3 back to .wav > Rewave.jpg

Ah... OK. Further inspections needed.

[danasan]

Thanks for your helping hand again, Five.

I fiddled around with the spectral views and your tutorials again. I think I got it now.

I was going to ask if there was someone interested in one my Simply Red concerts, but something does say my I shouldn't:



Thanks for your nice tutorials and all the work in them!

[Five]

you're welcome

this one looks like an FM, can you zoom to about 4 seconds pls? resize audition a little smaller before you get the screencap so you don't have to shrink the image.

broadcast audio normally cuts off at 15kHz, and has the "red stripe". not usually a red stripe at 15kHz, tho

pretty much all broadcasts of the last 10+ yrs is lossy but is allowed here so long as its captured well. (strange little exception)

previously, in the 70s etc of course it was lossless source, just dynamics compressed before broadcast & also with the stripe & 15kHz cutoff.

also, notice the noise above 15kHz... this is healthy, a normal thing to see. when you see pure black NOTHING up there somebody's messed with it either nr, eq or lossy encoding... zoom in for the truth!

[danasan]

Hi Five,

here are the 4 seconds; the Simply Red is this one: http://www.musik-sammler.de/media/642915 No linage so far...



I thought about some FM "disturbance" as well. I remember recording these FM sessions with my parents' Revox A77 when I was a teenager in the '70. Often had something strange... When it died, everything went into the trash.

One quick question. I've made a setup like mentioned in my first post to "transfer" some vinyl:



Would you mind having a look at a short snippet? It's a question if it makes any sense to transfer any unofficial stuff anyway.

Thanks again.

[danasan]

just to add:

Some "pilot signal" ?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pilot_signal

WOW, my ears were good at that time...

[Five]

Originally Posted by danasan

Hi Five,

here are the 4 seconds; the Simply Red is this one: http://www.musik-sammler.de/media/642915 No linage so far...



I thought about some FM "disturbance" as well. I remember recording these FM sessions with my parents' Revox A77 when I was a teenager in the '70. Often had something strange... When it died, everything went into the trash.

One quick question. I've made a setup like mentioned in my first post to "transfer" some vinyl:



Would you mind having a look at a short snippet? It's a question if it makes any sense to transfer any unofficial stuff anyway.

Thanks again.

yeah, sure post a sample would be great to check it. be aware that there are few vinyl sources that are best source, tho... (research necessary)