Does poor ratio equate bad trader?

[Chachi420]

Originally Posted by skodechoker

A bad digital trader would be someone who agrees to send a show to one person in exchange for another show digitally and then one side doesnt finish the send. I.E FTP Trades or private torrent trades.

When you seed a show to a torrent site like this one, you're not trading anything, what are you getting in return if you seed a show? The satisfaction of a shitload of people getting the show? The word trade does not apply. Bad sharer, yea, but its not a trade. You may get someone to seed a show you want, but thats still something on an individual basis.

The logic is completely flawed. I can't understand anyone assuming someone is a bad snail mail trader simply based on the amount of bits and bytes uploaded.

The word trade does not apply to torrents unless its individuals saying Ill seed this if you seed that. If you put it on a site like this one, theres going to be leechers, especially if said site doesnt enforce a ratio and a lot of times the leechers cant seed a significant amount for a variety of reasons.

you couldn't be more wrong...please see the above example calculation I presented in which every person downloading must contribute by uploading their fair share, otherwise the torrent will not work...
How do you not understand that if you do not upload your part, then you are taking more than your fair share. It's very simple...in order for you to download something, someone has to upload it to you. If you do not upload back to the rest of your peers, then they will be upset because you are stealing bandwidth.

Here's another example for you. I start a seed on a show. I upload it to one person. If that person does not upload it 1:1, then noone else gets the show. Now if 100 people want to hop on the torrent, as in the above example, everyone must have a 0.99 share ratio, or the torrent will not be completed. How can you not understand that??? With your crappy ratio of 0.3, you will cause the nice seeder who is trying to put out shows for everyone to download to upload much more than their fair share in order to keep the torrent alive just because you are stealing all of the bandwidth without contributing anything. This is not fair to the seeders who are trying to help you out by providing you with music.

skodechoker, you are a disgrace to the online trading community

[U2Lynne]

But Chachi, we are comparing bittorrenters to snail mail traders. Do you really think that if a user has a bad bt ratio here that they will make a bad snail mail trader?

[Chachi420]

Originally Posted by U2Lynne

But Chachi, we are comparing bittorrenters to snail mail traders. Do you really think that if a user has a bad bt ratio here that they will make a bad snail mail trader?

no...not necessarily, but the more I think about it, the more I think how bad it is that people's ratios are low...

Also, the only reason people are good snail mail traders is so that they can continue to trade amongst their peers. If someone is totally altruistic, then they will offer up freebies, or at the very least b&p's. Trading is not someone being nice to someone else for the sake of niceness (although it can be if that person really doesn't want to trade but just agrees to it just to be nice). Trading is what someone does because they want something from someone else and to get that something else, they trade something of equal value.

Now, as for online trading, if people do not contribute back by uploading their fair share, they cause all of their peers and seeders to take up the slack for them. This is not fair to anyone...

All I ask is that people return the favors of others by sharing what they download... SHARE THE GROOVE!

[U2Lynne]

Yep, I agree, Share The Groove!

But....

What if you can't (for some reason, who cares why, we are talking about people who WANT to STG) have a good ratio? So, you do Vines and B&Ps? Isn't that sharing also? But, you get no upload credit for it. So, you have a crappy ratio but you seed tons of vines or do tons of b&ps.... isn't that sharing? But it doesn't show in some ratio.

Originally Posted by Chachi420

n
Also, the only reason people are good snail mail traders is so that they can continue to trade amongst their peers. If someone is totally altruistic, then they will offer up freebies, or at the very least b&p's.

Who says I dont do that?

Trading is what someone does because they want something from someone else and to get that something else, they trade something of equal value.

Which has NOTHING to do with torrents! A bad ratio does not indicate that someone will not come through on a trade.

Now, as for online trading, if people do not contribute back by uploading their fair share, they cause all of their peers and seeders to take up the slack for them. This is not fair to anyone...

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/trade
trade (trd)
n.
5. An exchange of one thing for another.

I deleted the definitions that did not apply.

"Online trading" as you so eloquently put it is not applicable in regards to torrents. When you seed a show you are not trading but SHARING you get NOTHING in return for seeding a show unless you have a deal in place with someone else.

All I ask is that people return the favors of others by sharing what they download... SHARE THE GROOVE!

Until the people that run this place put a ratio system in the rules, no one is obligated to do that. Secondly, everything Ive downloaded off here for the most part is dead, I jumped on things very late and left when there were 0 leechers. I do not feel that I should be forced to seed something when no one else wants it, and I want to make room off my hard drive.

I've agreed with you 50,000 fucking times I have an awful ratio but NO ONE has stated a case how a bad ratio would equal a bad snail mail trade which was the essence of this argument from the get go. You can assume that, but in no instance has it been proven or justified.

skodechoker, you are a disgrace to the online trading community

How so? I have NEVER gone bad on a TRADE. As for sharing and torrents, if something is in need of a seed and I still have it on my hard drive I gladly turn it on. Your argument has nothing to do with the discussion at hand.

[Chachi420]

Originally Posted by U2Lynne

Yep, I agree, Share The Groove!

But....

What if you can't (for some reason, who cares why, we are talking about people who WANT to STG) have a good ratio? So, you do Vines and B&Ps? Isn't that sharing also? But, you get no upload credit for it. So, you have a crappy ratio but you seed tons of vines or do tons of b&ps.... isn't that sharing? But it doesn't show in some ratio.

I think if people have crappy ratios and they are doing lots of b&ps/freebies/vines, then they need to stick to USPS instead of downloading...
The fact of the matter is that EVERYBODY has ul caps. There are only a very small number of people who can ul an unlimited amount of TB's, but for the rest of us, we're ALL limited to a certain amount of ul by our isp's.
That is why everyone with good ratios know how to turn off the dl and just let it ul for awhile to share the groove back.

Originally Posted by Chachi420

I think if people have crappy ratios and they are doing lots of b&ps/freebies/vines, then they need to stick to USPS instead of downloading...

Well you see a lot of people request b&ps off of shows that have been seeded here, how can those be b&P'ed, freebied, or vined without downloading them?

That is why everyone with good ratios know how to turn off the dl and just let it ul for awhile to share the groove back.

What about trading the groove?

[Chachi420]

Originally Posted by skodechoker

How so? I have NEVER gone bad on a TRADE. As for sharing and torrents, if something is in need of a seed and I still have it on my hard drive I gladly turn it on. Your argument has nothing to do with the discussion at hand.

ok, I should have said "disgrace to the online bittorrent community"
also, I think a person with a poor ratio can be a good mail trader...they could also be a bad mail trader...I don't have any statistics on it though to fit any correlation...
I just think if someone doesn't have the decency to stop dl for a bit to ul something back, then they just need to stick to the USPS because they obviously don't know the etiquette of bittorrent...
Ok, I think I've clarified myself now...where I said 'trade' in most of the earlier posts, I was implying 'bittorrent'. Also fwiw, bittorrent is a type of trading. The seeder, person 0, shares to person 1, who ul to person 2, who ul to person 3 etc etc etc.... As in my earlier example, a torrent with 100 people will require that each person have a 0.99 ratio to complete the torrent for everyone to contribute equally.

[Chachi420]

Originally Posted by skodechoker

Well you see a lot of people request b&ps off of shows that have been seeded here, how can those be b&P'ed, freebied, or vined without downloading them?



What about trading the groove?

Trading the groove is fun...In fact, since I don't download, I just 'share' the groove...I prefer to trade the groove via snail mail since it's much more effective to obtain music. Torrents are good for a large audience of people to download, but everyone needs to ul their fair share in order for it to work.
You can post a comment in the thread that says "hey, anybody up for a trade" and then post a link to your list...that's what I do and I trade all of the time that way
It's just really annoying for seeders when they try to be nice and share stuff, but people abuse it and just download and drop off to download the next show and the next show and the next show...There is just too much stuff available for downlod to get it all...you must snail mail for most of it. When people drop off, then the seeder has to stay on longer to keep it alive, when that same seeder could be starting a new torrent.

Originally Posted by Chachi420

bittorrent is a type of trading. The seeder, person 0, shares to person 1, who ul to person 2, who ul to person 3 etc etc etc.... As in my earlier example.

No its not a type of trading. Its still sharing. What does the original seeder get in exchange? A trade is something for something. The word trade is not applicable to this site unless two individuals have an agreement that Party A will seed this, if Party B seeds that. A torrent is not a trade, its sharing. Completely different things.

The rules of this site state:

While we don't enforce any sort of Share Ratio Requirement on this site, we do ask that people try to seed a show to close to a 1:1 ratio. If this is not possible for you, then please do your part by sharing the shows by offering B&Ps or by starting a Vine for the show.

Operative words being try, or if its not possible than do your part by sharing by offering B&Ps and/or vines.

What I've done so far is offer B&Ps of what I download and gladly take requests from people who want something off my list that Ive gotten in straight trades (less than 20% of what I have on my list Ive downloaded) and with the vines Ive started have it's been things I would like to seed but can't so Im adding to the pool that way. If anything I would say Ive been ADDING to the site. My first posts were offers of freebies!

You're looking at one side of the coin completely in your argument. Not all bad ratios can be avoided for a variety of reasons, you dont know the particulars in any case of anyone who is below your "median" of 0.99 or whatever it is. You assume everything with your "scientific method". There are many cases of people with issues you havent taken into account. I hate to quote him but "Look at the big picture".

Also it works negatively with people with good ratios as well. Whos to say someone with a spectacular ratio doesnt do B&Ps, freebies or vines? They're in no way obligated to because of the seed, but someone else needs to step to the plate.

The seeder makes the decision to share the show, with nothing in return.

lso fwiw, bittorrent is a type of trading. The seeder, person 0, shares to person 1, who ul to person 2, who ul to person 3 etc etc etc..

Even your party 2 ul to party 3 scenario its still not a trade.

I'll give you this gold medallion for that silver medallion - Thats a trade.

I'll give you this 5 dollar bill for that 5 dollar bill, how is that a trade? The seeder NEVER gets anything in return. Its still sharing all the way around. Even the 100th seeder doesnt get anything in return. Its still that same show being shared. In essence its just gift giving, but its not trading. The original seeder is under no obligation to seed anything and seeder 2 receives that gift but is not obligated to pass it on. Its all sharing, the word trade doesnt apply in any instance unless the individuals have a deal to seed this, and Ill seed that.

Torrents are not trades.

[dorrcoq]

All guys with ratios of 133 are baby rapers. How do you like generalizations now?

The original statement regarding ratios and trading habits was asinine and indefensible with anything other than baseless rhetoric. And yet you still argue it pages later....don't you have a trade to burn?

I'm beginning to remember why I gave up on this site.

Originally Posted by Chachi420

no...not necessarily, but the more I think about it, the more I think how bad it is that people's ratios are low...

Then take it up with the site owners, it still does not apply whatsoever to the original question this topic posed which is the only thing Im arguing.

Am I a bad sharer because of my ratio? On glance from someone who doesnt know me or why, sure. If I could do more I would but there are instances where I can't.

Am I bad TRADER because of my ratio? Absolutely not. My feedback here and on other sites speaks for itself.

A seeder who seeds a show is sharing that show, the subsequent seeders are also sharing that show. Sharing is giving without the expectation of anything in return. Trading is giving something and receiving something in return. There is no trading invovled whatsoever.

[heyyo]

leecher = asshat
bad trader = asshat
asshat = asshat
(end of disscussion )
no but seriously:
"If you're ratio is less than 1.0, then you are stealing from the TTD community" ~Chachi420 , and i would never trade anythign with a theif!

[joemc]

hi, i have read all the thread......phew!

i agree that we should all get to/try to get to 1:1, sometimes you can't on individual torrents and it takes time to reach as for myself i only have certain interests, thats not an excuse and i know my ratio is only 0.61 before anyone has a go. I am not and never have been a thief of any description and i do try to give back what i get. one thing that has not been mentioned is that for my mind TTD is a community, a community is made up of many parts so if you have a low ratio but start vines isn't that helping the community? Although skode has a ratio of 0.34 i would suggest that if you added his vines to the stats he would be on more then 1:1, after all if you vine 1gig to 10 people it is in effect a ratio of 10:1, isn't it? just a thought, maybe if it was added then we would all start vines and stop people critising in a general way that serves no purpose apart from dissing other members.

Aye thank you

Joe