Does poor ratio equate bad trader?

[Chachi420]

Originally Posted by skodechoker

No its not a type of trading. Its still sharing. What does the original seeder get in exchange? A trade is something for something. The word trade is not applicable to this site unless two individuals have an agreement that Party A will seed this, if Party B seeds that. A torrent is not a trade, its sharing. Completely different things.

The rules of this site state:



Operative words being try, or if its not possible than do your part by sharing by offering B&Ps and/or vines.

What I've done so far is offer B&Ps of what I download and gladly take requests from people who want something off my list that Ive gotten in straight trades (less than 20% of what I have on my list Ive downloaded) and with the vines Ive started have it's been things I would like to seed but can't so Im adding to the pool that way. If anything I would say Ive been ADDING to the site. My first posts were offers of freebies!

You're looking at one side of the coin completely in your argument. Not all bad ratios can be avoided for a variety of reasons, you dont know the particulars in any case of anyone who is below your "median" of 0.99 or whatever it is. You assume everything with your "scientific method". There are many cases of people with issues you havent taken into account. I hate to quote him but "Look at the big picture".

Also it works negatively with people with good ratios as well. Whos to say someone with a spectacular ratio doesnt do B&Ps, freebies or vines? They're in no way obligated to because of the seed, but someone else needs to step to the plate.

The seeder makes the decision to share the show, with nothing in return.

Ok, look at it this way...
The original seeder does in fact share as you have observed. Every other person in the torrent must "trade" in order for the torrent to complete. If the downloaders, as I like to call them, will then upload 0.99 ratio in order for the rest of the people in the torrent to obtain the show. If they are not ul back to the community, then they are truly leeches--sucking the life out of the torrent. While it is not obligatory to help out your peers on the torrent, it is necessary for you to do your part by ul. Skodechoker, everyone in this world has a capped ul. You are not the only one. Good bittorrent traders stop dl every once and a while, and just let it ul. I used to ul phish DVDs while on a dial-up modem connection briefly when I first got started on sites like STG and EZT. Then I saw the need for a broadband. With broadband, dl is very fast, but ul is still not very fast. So, you are not the only one with poor ul. You just choose to use that as an excuse for your bad bittorrent etiquette.
In closing, please don't download any torrents I start because I like to "share" my music with people who will "trade" it back to the community. With my capped ul, I don't have enough bandwidth to "feed" a "leech" that sucks all of the life out of the torrents.

Sidenote:
Also, I have done, and continue to do, many b&p's/freebies for people. I just got done doing a 20+disc b&p to someone in New Zealand. My b&ping has slowed down somewhat from 2 years ago when my motto was "I can always b&p for anyone anytime" posted on my etree site...now it says "I can b&p as time allows"...I've still never turned anyone down for a b&p that has asked. If I don't have time I just reply, "please contact me in one month to see if I'm available for a b&p then"...and I make good on my word.

[Chachi420]

Originally Posted by joemc

hi, i have read all the thread......phew!

i agree that we should all get to/try to get to 1:1, sometimes you can't on individual torrents and it takes time to reach as for myself i only have certain interests, thats not an excuse and i know my ratio is only 0.61 before anyone has a go. I am not and never have been a thief of any description and i do try to give back what i get. one thing that has not been mentioned is that for my mind TTD is a community, a community is made up of many parts so if you have a low ratio but start vines isn't that helping the community? Although skode has a ratio of 0.34 i would suggest that if you added his vines to the stats he would be on more then 1:1, after all if you vine 1gig to 10 people it is in effect a ratio of 10:1, isn't it? just a thought, maybe if it was added then we would all start vines and stop people critising in a general way that serves no purpose apart from dissing other members.

Aye thank you

Joe

Hi Joe, First of all,your ratio isn't terrible in that you're only several GB below par. However, skodechoker (and many others) are 60GB to 200+ GB below achieving a decent ratio. Quantity is also a factor, not just mere ratio number. If someone has a 0.3 ratio but has only downloaded a 9GB dvd, then they have only ul 2.7GB. Don't get me wrong...it is still not great, but not terrible. If this pattern continues on for countless DVDs until the person is down by 60GB and has downloaded 90GB, this type of person is clearly not interested in helping anyone out in the torrent. I don't buy the claim about capped ul speeds...everyone else has those too and deals with it by not downloading every show they see.

Now as for your figure of 10:1 ratio for the vine... The person vining it would actually have an imaginary ratio of infinity. Everybody else in the vine, except for the very last person, would then trade 1:1 to perpetuate the vine.

Finally, the purpose is not to "diss" other members. The purpose is in effort to make people realize that there is no law that says they must help out the community. After all, bittorrnet is a huge part of this site, so bittorrent in my mind should be considered separate in terms of trading stats (whether the stats are clearly shown or not, people should strive for 1:1 for any trade online or offline). Now there is no law in this country that says you must hold a door open for an old lady entering a building, but it is proper etiquette and most people do that sort of thing. Not a totally analagous example, I know, but you get the point. We are not always governed by laws, but we must govern ourselves to do the right thing, which in this case is to not steal bandwidth from your peers in the torrent...

[joemc]

hi, thanks for replying chachi, how do you think we can overcome the issue? and put it to bed so that it is fair to everyone as i dont think ratio enforcement would work on this and some other boot sites (different for pop music mp3 and film sites). ie i dloaded a 2dvd set from another site, i caught it at the end and although i have my normal ul speed capped at 20 while dloading, this torrent was ul at 1-2, even after opening up to 60 when i had finished dloading. so for my ratio i stopped it and searched the orhan list and started seeding a couple of shows i still had. it took me quite a while to get my ratio back up to over 0.7. if the ratio level were enforced i could have been banned while trying to do something about it as the initial drop was beyond my control. would that have been fair although it would have been right as that what the rules would have stated. I think here at TTD the rules etc are spot on but maybe we could have a type of 'ratio' cop who could look at the members and pm them, if they get a reasonable explanation of low ratio then fair enough, if not and the person is a pure leech and does not contribute to other areas of the site then out you go. One site i am on has a minimum of 0.25 share which i thinks works to keep ratios low as sometimes we only do what we have to.

hope that isn't such a ramble.

joe

[Black Dog]

Originally Posted by Chachi420

I don't think that we should enforce the ratios unless they are less than 0.3 or something extremely low like that to supress the total leeches. However, I think if people's ratios are less than 0.9 (according to my above example that is entirely possible) then we should be able to frown upon them

The true meaning of "sharing" is to share selflessly.....

Do you like to frown?

[ragu421]

This has turned into an interesting discussion.While I can buy the theory that a person with a bad ratio COULD be a good snail trader,have any of you ever had a bad trading {snail} with someone who had a good ratio?I have jumped in BT forums of a show that I wanted but was unable to D/L because of ISP connection and asked the host if I could possibly get a B&P and would of course reoffer in the trade or B&P forum and I have never been turned down.I have also asked some of those that have been termed "leechers" for the same favor and never recieved a reply.I understand that ratios are not enforced here but I look at it sort of like an "all you can eat buffett".If you cant eat it all {or in this case share in some sort of equal proportion} then dont take it and put it on your plate.I say all of this by prequalifying my self in that I have never D/L a show in my life and wouldnt know where to begin to know how.Ill bet my buddy "twistedinthenw" would offer all the assistance Id need.I would suggest {and most of you probably do}that if your ratio is lower than you would like for whatever reason,that you offer shows in the snail trade and B&P forums so that everyone who would like it has an opportunity to get it.When I send out B&P's and trades that have been sent to me I always ask they,at some point,try and reoffer it.I think that is pretty honest and fair dont you all?Also,per my only bad trade experience,try and know who you are trading with.
db.etree.org/ragu420
I also quite agree. POTHEADS=GREAT TRADERS!

Originally Posted by Chachi420

Ok, look at it this way...
Good bittorrent traders.
.

YOU STILL DONT GET IT.

The word trader does not apply to bit torrents. Thats the whole point Im arguing. When you seed a show you're not trading it and neither is anyone else who downloads it. You're SHARING. The word trade does not apply so quit applying it. Use the dictionary there is not once instance of the definition where the word trade applies to a torrent upload.

When you seed, you get nothing in return, you're giving that show away. Whoever is the next seed, is giving that show away to the next one. No one gets anything in return for seeding that show. When you TRADE, I send someone discs and they send me some discs. There is an actual exchange. When you seed, you're not getting a show in return and neither is the next seeder who uploads it to the next seeder. Its still that same show being SHARED.

I've never argued a bad ratio is not a bad sharer. But a bad ratio does not equal a bad trader, and not one person in this thread has shown anything substantial to saying that a bad ratio = bad trader. Just all conjecture and absolute hokey bullshit. No stats showing that a bad ratio is a bad trader, not one example. Its arguing that a bad ratio is a bad sharer, which I AGREE WITH.

Share - To participate in, use, enjoy, or experience jointly or in turns,
A part or portion belonging to, distributed to, contributed by, or owed by a person or group.

[The Wicker Man]

Originally Posted by U2Lynne

Yep, I agree, Share The Groove!

.


those are dirty dirty words...


We must all bathe now in the Nile or something....

[xequence]

what are you getting in return if you seed a show?

The knowledge you dont take and not give?

skodechoker, you are a disgrace to the online trading communit

Chachi, youre a big help to the online trading community.

sometimes you can't on individual torrents

Understandable. Just seed other torrents that you can seed. It is the overall ratio that counts in my opinion.

The word trader does not apply to bit torrents. Thats the whole point Im arguing. When you seed a show you're not trading it and neither is anyone else who downloads it. You're SHARING. The word trade does not apply so quit applying it. Use the dictionary there is not once instance of the definition where the word trade applies to a torrent upload.

Did you know that in a torrent, the clients accually do trade? They accually communicate with each other and say "ill give you this piece for this piece", though that is obviously dumbed down, they dont talk like that, but whatever ;P It isnt like physical trading in the sense that it isnt "ill give you this dvd for this one", but clients do trade pieces. The pieces are different on each torrent, often between 32KB to 4MB.

[Festafarian]

Skode, you keep stressing the point that bt is not a trade. You are right, but I don't think that's the point. It's a matter of etiquette. As Chachi so eloquently said, it's like holding a door open. Just because it's not a rule, doesn't mean you shouldn't strive for it.

I understand about jumping on a torrent late and not being able to seed. Here's what works for me. I grab a number of torrents and check out the seeder/leecher ratio. Then I try to pick the torrent that is u/l the fastest. Sometimes a torrent that is d/l slow is a good thing in the long run, because when you get it, you are closer to that 1:1. I have d/l a number of shows that I couldn't possibly u/l equally. but made up for it by u/l faster torrents.

Skode, you are obviously not a bad trader, as your feedback proves, I think you just need to figure out the tricks to raising your ratio. I know it took me quite a lot of reading in the Technobabble section (and asking Lynne stupid questions ) to figure it out, but if I can do it with only about 40kb u/l, you can too.

[diggrd]

I couln't agree with Dennis more this thread has gone on 5 pages more than it should have.

Originally Posted by Chachi420

every person downloading must contribute by uploading their fair share

I think what's fair for me is my business and what's fair for you is yours. I only ask that I be allowed to determine my own ratio, any enforced site gets no more than 1:1 from me. I wish just like post counts I could shut ratios off.

How any of this has any bearing on my trader status (I suck btw which is why I will only do freebies) I'm not clear.

If some of us with unlimited quotas and high bandwidth don't mind over "trading" online just to get the music out there to those with quotas and slow connections then big deal. I have several terrabytes of shows I can jump on at any given time to help out, to me having that storage and the ability to seed stalled torents is as important as staying on a torrent till I share 1:1.

[Sugarkane]

my 2 cents:

I have a crappy ratio due to both my ineptness at technology and the fact multiple denners share an IP. But, I'm seeding up some vines, I feel like i have been good with my mail trading, and within my circle of friends I give lots of free shows to those who don't have capabilities or are too lazy to get stuff on their own. i don't think ratio and trading status really affect each other.

[sb76854]

I have not read the entire thread but my take on share ratio's is, (not that anyone cares ) You share ratio is an extention of your own personal character.

Your either a giver or a taker


Peace

[retired]

Originally Posted by sb76854

Your either a giver or a taker

what it all boils down to in the end

[sb76854]

Originally Posted by sb76854

I have not read the entire thread but my take on share ratio's is, (not that anyone cares ) You share ratio is an extention of your own personal character.

Your either a giver or a taker


Peace

Your share ratio is an extention of your own personal character.



Man this Romulan is kickass!!

[U2Lynne]

In case you guys didn't notice, you can now see if people do Vines or B&Ps when you look at their profile. I think sharing via Vines or B&Ps is just as important as a Share Ratio. (My opinion, of course.)