Why aren't FLAC shows tagged?

[speeble]

I've just recently started back into the live music world and I'm curious why FLAC shows aren't normally tagged? I mean, I understand that once they've been seeded changing tags will invalidate your files, but why aren't the files properly tagged in the first place?

I'd rather have tags that don't necessarily fit my preference than no tags, know what I mean?

[rspencer]

I don't tag.

And I'm not going to.

I taped it. I edited it. I seeded it.

Feel free to tag it.

[paddington]

Originally Posted by speeble

I've just recently started back into the live music world and I'm curious why FLAC shows aren't normally tagged? I mean, I understand that once they've been seeded changing tags will invalidate your files, but why aren't the files properly tagged in the first place?

I'd rather have tags that don't necessarily fit my preference than no tags, know what I mean?

Note - this is why we require ST5 (FFP) checksums at TTD. They are generated from the decompressed WAV audio, only. Changing the FLAC tag will not cause the checksum to fail, in this case.

It WILL fail if you use MD5, as MD5 hashes the entire file, including tags, art, headers, etc - which is why we do not allow MD5 for audio torrents.

more info about this can be found in my sig.



I always tag my FLACs when I seed. There are several software programs that will auto-tag based on file names and wildcards, which makes it very quick. I recommend doing it, but we will not likely ever require it here at TTD.

[speeble]

Originally Posted by jameskg

Note - this is why we require ST5 (FFP) checksums at TTD. They are generated from the decompressed WAV audio, only. Changing the FLAC tag will not cause the checksum to fail, in this case.

It WILL fail if you use MD5, as MD5 hashes the entire file, including tags, art, headers, etc - which is why we do not allow MD5 for audio torrents.

more info about this can be found in my sig.

I may very well be missing something because I'll admit to not totally understanding BT technology, but regardless of the checksum required here, if I download a torrent and re-tag the files, I won't be able to seed those files any longer, right?

rspencer: I thank you and everyone else for all that you do. But don't you keep the files for your own use as well? I would think that would be enough reason to tag them. And I'm not trying to argue the point with you, just honest curiosity.

[paddington]

The specific .torrent (whole thing, on the tracker) will no longer allow your files to hash out to become a seeder, no - because the files cannot change at all and still match the torrent's master checksum.

However, the ST5 (FFP) hashes for each audio file will check just fine as long as you do not change the audio.

The purpose is to be sure the audio is the same from version to version (and hasn't been tampered with).

[rspencer]

Originally Posted by speeble

rspencer: I thank you and everyone else for all that you do. But don't you keep the files for your own use as well? I would think that would be enough reason to tag them. And I'm not trying to argue the point with you, just honest curiosity.

Just depends on your playback method, I suppose.

I usually just play on my PC, or stereo via my PC, or burn a CDR for the car.

And I tend to just play a show as a whole. Should I want a particular song, I just check the text file. No biggie.

Tags aren't of much use to me, so I don't spend the time to tag.

[speeble]

Fair enough.

[Toadinohio]

I'm with rspencer on this-
It takes a lot of time and effort to set up, tape, take down, transfer, split tracks, and then convert to FLAC.
Then make a text file (sometimes painstakingly track down a setlist if you are not familiar with the artist enough) , make a torrent, then upload it.
By the time I've done all that, the last thing I want to do is add another step.

Also add in the fact that I don't care about tagging, for many of the same reasons rspencer mentioned, and that some people have different tagging preferences-
it's just too much!

I don't care what you do with the files after that- as long as you seed back (or share in some way), don't sell it, and only convert to lossy for personal use.
And even that is out of my control.


Although I was talking to another taper friend of mine-
he suggested we should find another person to do the transfers/conversions/tagging since we are getting backed up with shows and they are not getting out in a timely fashion (if at all!)
So we may be looking for volunteer(s) in the future-
and the chance of the files being tagged will probably go up.

[rspencer]

Originally Posted by Toadinohio

I'm with rspencer on this-
It takes a lot of time and effort to set up, tape, take down, transfer, split tracks, and then convert to FLAC.
Then make a text file (sometimes painstakingly track down a setlist if you are not familiar with the artist enough) , make a torrent, then upload it.
By the time I've done all that, the last thing I want to do is add another step.

That can be such a PITA sometimes, especially if there are a bunch of instrumentals. Man, I've spent hours scouring the 'net for samples, blogs, etc. to try to ID instrumental songs before.

And that also affects the tagging. So many shows get posted without setlists or with incorrect setlists, so you can end up with incorrect tags.

[dcbullet]

I've started tagging my flac files for the shows I seed. Takes about 5 minutes. I think it is a good practice. You can put lots of info into those tags I've discovered!

[tonebloke]

Can one of the knowledgeable please explain exactly what this "tagging" is. Is it the filling of info IE: title, artist, location; etc onto the flac file.

[AAR.oner]

flac tags are info embedded in the file that contain artist, title, year, song name, etc etc

[GhostInTheMachine]

all modern playback devices need tags - examples (*note: the first example is tagged with band name only)
nottagged.png

tagged.png
display is from main stereo system ( HTPC )

[freezer]

Originally Posted by dcbullet

I've started tagging my flac files for the shows I seed. Takes about 5 minutes. I think it is a good practice. You can put lots of info into those tags I've discovered!

So what happens when someone seeds a show and the tags are loaded with misinformation, speculation, and garbage info?

Does someone on staff rectify the info OR is it just TTD policy to keep the bad information and let the show/set continue to be passed along as is.

I've seen recordings I made years ago turn up at this site with incredible amounts of bogus information, and I've always wondered about this.

Honestly -- Why are torrents allowed at TTD with misinformation in the tags?


This is a serious question; I really don't understand why a show isn't removed immediately when the seeder passes along bogus information in the description and / or tags?

Wouldn't it be easier to pull the show until the right information has been ascertained and the "mistakes" corrected?

[LZJoker]

Isn't it usually just dates and the artist/song name in tags rather than lineage?